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Our Therapists Talk about DBT, and What It Means to Them

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It’s not uncommon for someone new to DBT therapy, DBT skills class, or both to comment on how those of us who teach skills and work as DBT therapists talk about using skills in our own lives. To many people, perhaps used to less disclosure in therapy, this is perplexing. “If you, as a therapist, still have to use these skills,” they will say, “why should I believe they will work for me?” This is a great question! Let us be clear; DBT will not take away your problems. DBT will not make your friends treat you better, nor will it make your boss kinder, your landlord more compassionate, nor will it make your partner stop leaving things around the house. DBT won’t make the weather cooperate with your plans for an outdoor event, and it certainly can’t make Bay Area traffic cooperate on the freeway so that you can get to where you’re going on time.

What DBT can do is help you develop the skills to deal with these situations in a more effective way, so you suffer less and begin to build the life and relationships you want. You’ve likely heard it said, if you can’t control a situation, at least you can control how you think about it and how you respond. In this sense, we, as DBT therapists and skills class facilitators, use skills to go about our daily lives, too, because just like you, we are out there in the world dealing with friends, family, partners, traffic, landlords, taxes, doctors, the DMV, and everything else both predictable and unpredictable. Would you rather learn from someone who hasn’t used or doesn’t think he or she needs to use a tool, or someone who uses the tool just like you do every day? Someone with training and experience, who can help guide you toward figuring out how to use these skills in a way that best suits you?

While discussing this topic during a recent DBT consult team meeting the Oakland DBT and Mindfulness Center, we realized we ought to share with you how we, personally, feel about DBT—what led us to this therapy, what we like about it, and how, exactly, we use it every day.

Center Co-founder Heather Macbeth, MFT, said the reasons she felt originally drawn to DBT are more varied than there is space in one article to name. “I decided that I wanted to be a DBT therapist when interning at a family services agency for at-risk youth. I noticed the effectiveness of the DBT treatment model for these kids who were really struggling,” she said. “In groups these kids were talking about DEAR MAN (A DBT skill) and Wise Mind, and they were practicing these skills. I wanted to know right away what these kids were talking about!”

Heather noticed, once she started formal DBT training, that most of the DBT trainers and other therapists she was meeting in the DBT community seemed to “value the practice of mindfulness” both for their clients, also for themselves. “And on top of that, the community of DBT therapists and consultants I’ve met seem to be very committed to learning (despite how many years of experience they had) in order to provide the best treatment to their patients,” she said.

For Oakland DBT and Mindfulness Center Co-founder Christine Benvenuto, MFT, the encouragement of ongoing learning and personal practice within the DBT community is important. While the treatment is complex and multi-layered, the underlying metaphors encourage being in relationship with our intuition and wisdom and the profound nature of human interconnection. This range leaves me inspired and nourishes me spiritually and intellectually.

“On a personal level, I was deeply moved by learning Buddhist meditation in my early 20s, and DBT integrates many core concepts (mindfulness, acceptance and principals of cause and effect) into treatment,” Christine said. “I like the range of what DBT provides; from clear and accessible language for teaching mindfulness and emotional intelligence, to a structure for treatment for people with complex needs. The model encourages client empowerment. We are constantly teaching tools people can use now and over time to help themselves, therefore becoming more resilient and able to respond to internal and external challenges, both on their own and in their relationships.”

DBT therapist Lauren Gonzalez, MFT, has practiced Zen Buddhism for nearly two decades, and so she understands the value of mindfulness on a personal level. She also found herself within an odd dialectic, originally, in being both drawn to meditation and mindfulness in therapy practice while also favoring the more structured, evidence-based therapies as she established her therapy modality. Lauren found DBT at the center of that dialectic—a therapy that offered a reliable, well-formed, and logical approach to healing, while also making space for the moment, and all that can arise when we are present to what’s happening, not over-focused on what has already happened, or what might happen in the future. Struggling for years as a teen with her own anxiety and obsessive tendencies, DBT provided a frame Lauren could believe in, and feel confident sharing with others.
“I’m an enthusiastic person when it comes to experiences, but with regard to ideas and beliefs, I’m not a quick joiner. DBT sounded interesting, but I had to really dig into it, with one foot potentially out the door if it didn’t suit me. Much to my surprise, that’s an approach that works well with DBT—this therapy won’t work if you aren’t ready for it, and a little skepticism is very healthy! After reading the DBT literature, and participating in the Foundational training in Seattle, I was hooked. I felt confident I had found something that I could work with because I strongly believe in the idea that there are many truths—lots of them conflicting—and it’s all too easy for us to get stuck on one side or the other. Dialectical thinking is a natural to me, and so using dialectics and mindfulness together was a slam-dunk. Add the
value of validation to that equation, and I can’t imagine working in any other
therapeutic frame. And the tools, the map for using DBT to hit one’s goals is really clear. I like that, and of course I like the fact that while the tools are there, and they are very specific, they can be hacked to suit each individual because no two people are alike. This is not a one-size-fits-all therapy.”

Joe Lawwill, MFT Intern at Oakland DBT and Mindfulness Center, finds DBT appealing because of the comprehensiveness of the treatment. “I can’t remember a recent life event when the DBT skills didn’t fit a situation in my life,” he said. “DBT is appealing because it is structured, yet flexible. It has a general track that leads you through life, yet is customizable to fit your own personal goals. I like that DBT is about recognizing that life contains endless opposite truths and opinions that need to be reconciled and guides us towards a middle path. DBT effectively teaches that within every argument is a kernel of truth. I also appreciate how DBT allows clients and therapists to stay true to their own goals and values, and increases space for self-acceptance and compassion. As a DBT therapist, it’s been gratifying to see how clients are able to come to group class and recount stories about how they’ve been able to use skills they picked-up in group class and apply them in creative ways to meet the challenges in their own lives. “

DBT therapist Laurie Pantell, MFT, sees DBT as a comprehensive treatment with something for everyone. “I see DBT as an extremely effective strategy when someone is engaged in self harming behaviors and needs to interrupt destructive patterns. It is a comprehensive system of interventions and skills; some skills will work with every client problem.”

And guess what, folks? We use it every day, just like you.

“I like to feel that I’m getting the most out of life and that I’m seeing things clearly and with compassion,” said Christine. “I know which situations challenge me the most, and using skills helps immensely. Having a framework to respond to difficult emotions has been a huge asset. Also, I love the positive psychology aspect of DBT and the encouragement to deeply think about values and to create a purposeful life. Finally, the communication skills are natural to use and they help me show up in all
of my relationships in ways that brighten and benefit, even when it’s sticky and hard”

Heather said working with the DBT module, with mindfulness at its heart, has been a “life-changer” for her in many ways. “The practice of DBT has helped (I hope) to become a more mindful and aware parent, wife, friend, therapist, family member and community member. I think I take pauses more in my life and try to stay attuned to the questions, ‘What are my values?’ and “What is needed here?’ ”

“In my own life,” said Laurie, “I notice that when there is a precipitating event that dysregulates me emotionally I am very slow to return to baseline. I have found the self soothing skills to be very helpful in bringing me back to equilibrium.” Besides mindfulness, which Lauren incorporates into her life whenever she can (in line at the post office, while awaiting a difficult phone call or meeting, when driving to work), she uses a bevy of the skills on an “as needed” basis. “There are times,” Lauren said, “when I’ll do half-smile and willing hands 20 times a day. I use mindfulness of emotion a lot, riding the wave, knowing that if I just wait it out I will feel differently (better!) in a more reasonable amount of time. I’ve learned to be patient and to wait for a more wise-mind moment before reacting, sending emails, picking up the phone, and so forth. This has helped my life and relationships tremendously. I use DEAR MAN, and identify my objectives in any given moment when I have a decision to make, or a challenging conversation I need to have with
someone. My favorite skill, however, is one I use regularly in all its variations; I love the ABC skills from emotion regulation. Accumulate the positives (I believe this so strongly—noticing what’s working instead of hyper-focusing on what isn’t has been life changing for me), the values pyramid where we aim to live aligned with our values instead of making ourselves feel worse about goals we can’t meet by focusing on those instead, and Build mastery and Cope ahead. My emotional resilience is
much greater since I learned, and work consistently with DBT.”

Joe offered, “For me personally, DBT has given me added confidence that when situations in my own life get a bit chaotic, I have a tool-kit of skills that allow me to tolerate the ‘brick-wall’ moments, while remaining mindful of the many positives that are there for me to appreciate.”

So yes, we are DBT therapists and group facilitators, and we use this stuff all the time and each believe we are better for it. And we are proud to say it, especially as we offer these skills to you. After all, would you eat at a restaurant where the chef won’t touch her own food?

“We’re grateful that DBT is not only practical and conscious, it’s also evidence-based and it works,” Heather concluded. “I have always been impressed with, and know the importance of, the amount of research that supports DBT as an evidenced-based treatment. I am not a researcher myself and I have the upmost respect for those people who have put their energy toward finding out which treatments are effective. I’ve seen again and again in my practice how people’s lives have improved, but to have this as supported research means a lot to me too. My hope is that DBT can also
be useful in this way for the people we work with at Oakland DBT and Mindfulness Center.”

Written by: Lauren Gonzalez, MFT

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Bayla Travis

Bayla Travis, PsyD

Licensed Clinical Psychologist

Bayla Travis is a licensed clinical psychologist who specializes in ketamine-assisted psychotherapy for individuals with chronic pain, trauma and anxiety. Bayla holds a Certificate in Psychedelic-Assisted Therapies & Research from the California Institute of Integral Studies and completed specialized training in ketamine-assisted psychotherapy at the Healing Realms Center and the Polaris Insight Center. Training in Somatic Experiencing with Peter Levine and Kristen Neff’s self-compassion approach to stress reduction also informs the care she offers. Her interest in ketamine-assisted psychotherapy is based on evidence that suggests that a new relationship between the mind and body, with the assistance of ketamine, can produce novel and creative ways to heal trauma and other body-centered distress. Bayla is also a member of the Crohn’s & Colitis Foundation’s Healthcare Professional Engagement Committee and has been a go to mental health resource for people with Irritable Bowel Syndrome (IBS), Crohn’s Disease and Ulcerative Colitis for over a decade. She also holds an MFA in playwriting and enjoys working with artists of all stripes.

When away from work, Bayla can be found at the climbing gym, the theater, attending live music, writing plays, and visiting animal sanctuaries.

Rajesh Jagannathan

Rajesh Jagannathan

Rajesh Jagannathan was born in India and earned a B.Tech in Computer Science from IIT, Madras. After spending a few youthful years in the Masters/Ph.D. program at the Ohio State University moved to the Bay Area for work. Since then he has stayed in the Bay Area and worked in tech for the better part of 20+ years. He has been with the center since its inception playing a key advisory role on tech related matters.

He enjoys living in the bay area with his family, exploring the outdoors in California and the world at large. While interests change over time some constants through the years have been travel, cooking, painting and board games. Lately all his spare time has been consumed by pickleball.

David Pepper

David Pepper, MD

Dr. Pepper was born in San Francisco and attended UC Berkeley and then Medical and Graduate School in Iowa. Returning to California, he practiced and taught full spectrum Family Medicine with UCSF for 30+ years, working in Fresno, San Francisco and Contra Costa Counties. 1,000 births and 1,000 deaths one could say – with thousands of Families in between… in the ER, Hospital and Outpatient Clinics – always with a focus on Family and Community.
 
He has a long interest in Psychedelics and completed a graduate program with this focus at CIIS in 2023. He is passionate about helping people think about how to craft their second half of life with meaning, including planning for a natural End of Life process that is not over medicalized.  He believes that a well planned End of Life allows people to live well.  More about his work can be found here.  
 
He brings his expertise in clinical assessment, and the tools that support this to working with the Team at Oakland DBT and Mindfulness Center to develop best practices for working with clients seeking expanded state treatment.  He collaborates with his wife who also works with clients in Expanded States.  He enjoys his 4 children, gardening, hiking, and community.
Rochelle

Rochelle Frank, PsyD

Rochelle Frank, PhD is a clinical psychologist in Oakland, CA with over 30 years of experience in both the public and private sectors. Dr. Frank earned her doctorate in clinical psychology at Syracuse University and completed her clinical training at Yale Psychiatric Institute. She specializes in evidence-based transdiagnostic treatment of  complex and co-occurring mood, anxiety, and trauma disorders in adults and adolescents, and related  problems in high-conflict couples and families. 

In addition to her private practice Dr.  Frank is an assistant clinical professor of psychology at the University of California, Berkeley, and also  holds faculty and supervisory appointments at The Wright Institute and the University of California San  Francisco School of Medicine.  She is co-author of The transdiagnostic road map to case formulation and  treatment planning: Practical guidance for clinical decision making (Frank & Davidson, 2014; New Harbinger),  a contributing author to S. G. Hofmann & S. C. Hayes (Eds.), Beyond the DSM (2020, New Harbinger), and  currently serves on the board of directors for the Institute for Better Health.

Dr. Frank has been involved with Oakland DBT and Mindfulness Center since 2012.  She has served as a clinical consultant and focuses on helping the Team bring a transdiagnostic process-based perspective to case formulation and treatment planning, as well as integrating methods from other third-wave cognitive behavioral therapies into the DBT model.  

In addition to enjoying time with her family, Dr.  Frank is an avid golfer, home chef, and a frequent beta-tester of her clinical skills while skiing and mountain biking.

Michael Stanger

Michael Stanger, MD

I am a board-certified psychiatrist practicing in California and Colorado across a range of settings – inpatient, outpatient, emergency and partial hospital, with current affiliations at Contra Costa Regional Medical Center and Boulder Community Health.

I have a particular interest in the therapeutic utility of ketamine to support psychotherapy. I began working with ketamine in 2016, initially in my California private practice where I administered oral and intramuscular doses. I have since continued to support therapist access and to develop understanding around the most effective use of these modality. In related work, I have mentored with the CIIS Center for Psychedelic Therapies and Research and taught sessions with the Polaris Insight Center on ketamine.

My background includes childhood immigration from South Africa to New York, working in the technology industry for several years and then traveling in an unscripted manner to arrive at the awareness that medicine, and ultimately psychiatry would be the path to be helpful to others in an applied way.

Chrysanthe

Chrysanthe Christodoulou

Operations Manager

Chrysanthe is our Operations Manager and one of our in-house Mindfulness Experts. She connects with new clients as they come into the Center, oversees day to day operations and runs special projects.  She is instrumental in supporting the Team by bringing joy, flow and ease.

Chrysanthe studied Meditation, Yoga, and Mindfulness with some of the most respected teachers of our time. She also holds a BS in Economics.  This combination of skills ensures our Center runs efficiently behind the scenes and lends wisdom to our budding Mindfulness Program.

Her local teaching career has spanned the Bay Area and beyond: overseas in Spain, Chile, Greece, and Amsterdam; and locally in San Francisco, Marin, Berkeley, Oakland, and Walnut Creek. Chrysanthe honors the magic in both movement and stillness, stirring energy and witnessing what emerges as everything settles into place. 

When Chrysanthe isn’t handling the business end of the Center or running mindfulness programming, you can find her exploring trails with her wolf pup, finding connection in community, and enjoying the sun and the sea.

Priya Jogia

Priya Jogia

Licensed Clinical Social Worker (LCSW)

​​Priya Jogia is a licensed clinical social worker (LCSW). Since 2013, she has worked in various clinical settings including: community mental health, hospital, and outpatient programs. Priya’s also spent time in Vietnam studying international social work and the relationship between culture, ethnicity, and mental health.

Priya is an active practitioner of mindfulness-based behavioral therapies including DBT and ACT, and has extensive training in CBT. As a DBT therapist, she’s seen the positive impact of using DBT skills in her own life, and is strongly committed to helping clients live meaningful lives that are aligned with their values.

Priya has an interest in perinatal mental health and working with BIPOC populations, and she strives to integrate a social and racial justice lens into her work. While being a therapist has brought a lot of meaning to Priya’s life, she tries not to take herself too seriously, and gets much joy from being a mum, being in nature, and cuddling with her dog.

Jay Indik

Jay Indik

Licensed Clinical Social Worker (LCSW)

Jay brings his compassion, creativity, and equanimity to support each person who seeks therapy.. He believes that what makes each person happy is connected to their deepest sense of what is important. Jay listens for how each client can idiosyncratically transform their suffering into a happier life. As a result of working with Jay folks’ learn to address unwanted behavior, regulate their emotions, recover from individual or cultural trauma, repair relationships, and organize their behavior consistent with their values Jay has intensive training and has practiced the following modalities for decades: DBT, Narrative Therapy, Somatic Experiencing, Sensory Modulation, Psychodynamic Treatment and Expressive Arts Therapies. Jay specializes in working with couples, parents, parent child dyads and young adults, as well as with individuals from mid-life through retirement. Jay’s experience as a theater director, parent, teacher, and executive combined with his knowledge of research validated treatments allows him to best relate and serve each individual.

Jay has two adult children (one daughter, one non-binary), a “Real Dads Love Trans kids” t-shirt, and one amazing grandchild he watches one day a week.

Ari Tavano

Ariana Tavano

Licensed Clinical Social Worker (LCSW)

Ari Tavano is a licensed clinical social worker (LCSW). She has worked in an array of clinical settings for over ten years, and utilizes the diversity of her experience to foster a therapeutic frame rooted in curiosity and empathic regard. She specializes in working with those looking to cultivate self-growth, increase interpersonal efficacy, and develop an affirming relationship with their internal worlds.

Ari extends a humanistic approach to her work by nourishing the whole self – according to one’s intersectionality and inherent wisdom. She is trained in DBT and other treatment modalities, including CBT, Existentialism, and Trauma Theory. She harmonizes the concepts of behaviorism and intuitiveness of relational healing, with opportunities to explore psychedelics and expanded-state work.

Ari invites you to build capacity for both processing and playfulness. She prioritizes humor and is often found in the ocean, on the dance floor, and imagining her next adventure. Ari has also worked as a licensed public school teacher in Hawai’i and documentary photographer in South Africa. She is committed to equity, inclusion, and the pursuit of social justice.

Alyson Barry

Alyson Barry, PhD

Licensed Clinical Psychologist

Alyson Barry is a licensed clinical psychologist (PhD). Since 2005, she’s gained experience in diverse areas of practice, including inpatient hospitals, intensive outpatient programs, community mental health, and private practice. Alyson came to DBT in 2013 through her own yoga and meditation practice, which led her to seek additional training in mindfulness-based therapies. Drawn to work with people who’ve experienced developmental trauma, she begins by addressing what’s happening in the present, helping her clients develop practical skills that fundamentally improve how they interact with themselves and the world around them. As a result of this work, this can over time, set the stage for healing the older wounds. She believes in a collaborative and consent-based treatment approach, working to ensure that clients understand and are in agreement with any diagnosis or therapeutic technique. She hopes that this transparency can help to create an environment of respect for her clients’ choice, autonomy, and knowledge of themselves. She is also a big believer in bringing humor and irreverence into therapy. In her free time, Alyson enjoys snorkeling, hanging out with her cat, and spending time with friends. Alyson is available to work via telehealth with clients in California, Colorado, and Florida.
Heather Macbeth

Heather Macbeth

Licensed Marriage & Family Therapist (MFT)

Heather co-founded the Oakland DBT & Mindfulness Center in 2012. She is a licensed MFT. She offers a relational, somatic, experiential and humanistic approach to her work and is committed to relieving psychological suffering. Her style is both compassionate and gentle as well as directive and aims to be supportive of each person’s unique needs. Her work focuses on emotion regulation, changing persistent cycles of self-blame, listening more closely to intuitive knowing and increasing self compassion. She is committed and dedicated to helping her clients have a life where they can find themselves thrive vs. just survive. Working as a therapist, clinical supervisor, skills group and workshop facilitator has brought her a lot of joy. In addition to a private practice setting she has worked in community mental health organizations with disenfranchised youth and families and in public schools as a Behavioral Specialist. Heather works with adults and teens. She is intensively trained in DBT and other treatment modalities such as; Gestalt, Psychodynamic, MBSR, ands Expressive Arts. She is certified in EAP (Equine-assisted psychotherapy) and offers equine-facilitated learning workshops in the Bay Area. Additionally, she has received her training in Ketamine Assisted Psychotherapy through the Polaris Insight Center in San Francisco and is inspired by the potential healing benefits of expanded states of consciousness work.

In her free time, and in ideal worlds, she is exploring jungles, hot springs, beaches, hanging out with animals (large and small), enjoying good food, travel and most importantly time with loved ones.

Christine Benvenuto

Christine Benvenuto

Licensed Marriage & Family Therapist (MFT)

Christine is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist and the co-founder and Executive Director of the Oakland DBT and Mindfulness Center. She brings over 25 years of experience in mental health to her work, with a background in working with people in all walks of life in residential, outpatient and home based settings. A systems thinker, valuing sustaining relationships, she works with individuals, couples and groups, with a strong belief that small shifts can create dynamic changes.

She blends a lifetime of interest and practice in somatics, meditation, embodiment, psychedelics and the arts with a passion for social justice, nature and thriving ecosystems. Her mentors are psychologically savvy, center co-existence, value differences and maintain a sense of humor.

Her professional training spans from depth oriented, expanded state and attachment based to behavioral styles of treatment. She co-creates a therapeutic container that feels collaborative, warm, dynamic, thoughtful and deeply resonant.

She works with individuals, couples and groups, offering ongoing weekly therapy, Ketamine-Assisted Psychotherapy and Consultation.

Along side of her professional life, Christine is grateful for her extended web of relationships as daughter, sister, wife, friend, step-mom and community connector.